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Render problem slowly spreading across stack...
posted by Jeremy Lang  on Jan. 27, 2015, 7:30 p.m. (4 years, 8 months, 22 days ago)
9 Responses     0 Plus One's     0 Comments  
Deadline 6.2, 3dsMax 2014.
Machines go from rendering normally to getting stuck at "starting up" status.
Once they start doing that they never seem to render in Max successfully again. Does not seem to be Deadline or network related because they continue to render in other applications fine.
Looking at one right now, last message was:0: STDOUT: - 16:16:20.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
It doesn't matter that it'll be a couple machines out of dozens of identical ones, connected the same and imaged at the same time.
Anybody run into something like this, or have any ideas?
______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

Thread Tags:
  discuss-at-studiosysadmins 

Response from Anonymous @ Feb. 4, 2015, 12:45 a.m.
On 01/29/15 17:35, Jean-Francois Panisset wrote: > On Windows I would probably use ProcMon as an ersatz to strace: > https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx Yes, IIRC they (Microsoft) took over the sysinternals guy's tools and rolled them into a Microsoft-blessed package. I used the sysinterals guy's stuff a lot, but for tracing I used to use the (now defunct) strace tool from a guy whose website was at bindview.com. Back in the early 2000's I found myself using it often, and kept a copy on my server: http://seriss.com/people/erco/ftp/winnt/strace/ ..because I thought Microsoft might make it "disappear". This version worked for XP and older. I do recall learning a lot very quickly about the NT kernel watching the output of that strace tool (ProcMon's output is similar); zillions of NtXxxXxx() system calls, and the registry was constantly being interrogated for even very low level operations. > The annoying thing is that typical Windows apps (or the libraries > they use) seem to make so many failed system calls that it can be > difficult to figure out what is a 'normal' error and what is a > real error, but it is still a very valuable tool when you have > a misbehaving app. Yes; interpreting trace output on both windows and unix is an exercise in knowing what to ignore.. and windows traces usually are much noisier because the NT api is so 'wide', and what we think of as simple operations (like a file open) is actually implemented as many separate calls to the kernel and references to the registry. I found it helped to focus on looking for certain operations: o Look for "file open" related calls, that's where you usually find the trouble of hangs and such, as often hangs are related to UNC paths to servers that are offline (where it "hangs" trying to find them), or are files that don't exist, etc. o Look for pauses in the trace output -- this is probably what is causing a 'hang', such as waiting for a network connection or file open that is stuck for some reason o Look for network connections (TCP/UDP) to non-existent machines, as these were usually misconfigured licensing issues. (Usually the fault of a script with an old environment variable, or an old defunct license file getting picked up) I found I had to write small programs that e.g. just opened a file, read some content, and closed, just to see what the pattern of NtXxx() calls were in the trace output, so I knew what to look for when the third party renderer's ran. Usually if the renderer really 'hangs', the output from the trace tool stops too (if you're lucky), long enough that you can freeze the output and look back a few lines to see what it was doing before it hung. To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe

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Response from Francois Ruty @ Jan. 31, 2015, 5:25 a.m.

Yes, Procmon is great,  but as Jean-François said, even for a healthy program you often see hundreds of errors, so you need to either compare the log with a same log from a previous no-bug situation, or you compare the timing. Most often I read the log starting from the end


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Response from Jean-Francois Panisset @ Jan. 29, 2015, 8:40 p.m.
On Windows I would probably use ProcMon as an ersatz to strace:

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx

The annoying thing is that typical Windows apps (or the libraries they use) seem to make so many failed system calls that it can be difficult to figure out what is a 'normal' error and what is a real error, but it is still a very valuable tool when you have a misbehaving app.

JF




On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Greg Ercolano <erco_mlist@seriss.com> wrote:
On 01/29/15 15:28, Jeremy Lang wrote:
> Thanks for the ideas!
>
> I tried everything I could think of with the UI folder, the MaxStartUI files, and the UI folder within en-US (where the MaxStart files were) and the 3 test machines still get stuck at the same point: 0: STDOUT: - 15:21:09.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
>
> What user folder/files were you referring to? The stuff in the render user's appdata folder doesn't seem like much and \AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax is empty already...

Hey Jeremy,

I once had to troubleshoot a lightwave problem where it hung in
the middle of rendering.

In that case I was able to troubleshoot using the equivalent of Wireshark
to watch SMB to see what files it was accessing over the network.

Turned out it was a file that didn't exist, and lightwave wasn't
printing an error, it just kept retrying to load the same file
over and over in a loop.

The problem could have been in one of the many lightwave plugins
they were using to render at the time. (This was around 1999 or so,
and I think I used tcpdump with a samba filter module, tracing it
at the server)

There are some debugging tools as well that will let you check out
what the program is doing in the way of local file accesses on the
render node, in case it's stuck on files loaded from the local drive.

There used to be an 'strace for windows' that would show you all files
being opened by the render in realtime. You'd just redirect the output
of that tool to a file, wait for the render to hang, and then look at
the end of the log to see what operating system calls it was hung on.

Sometimes you'd find it's hung waiting for a license, sometimes a
lock file.. anyway, useful if you're willing to pop up the floorboards..


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Response from Anonymous @ Jan. 29, 2015, 8:20 p.m.
On 01/29/15 15:28, Jeremy Lang wrote: > Thanks for the ideas! > > I tried everything I could think of with the UI folder, the MaxStartUI files, and the UI folder within en-US (where the MaxStart files were) and the 3 test machines still get stuck at the same point: 0: STDOUT: - 15:21:09.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins > > What user folder/files were you referring to? The stuff in the render user's appdata folder doesn't seem like much and \AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax is empty already... Hey Jeremy, I once had to troubleshoot a lightwave problem where it hung in the middle of rendering. In that case I was able to troubleshoot using the equivalent of Wireshark to watch SMB to see what files it was accessing over the network. Turned out it was a file that didn't exist, and lightwave wasn't printing an error, it just kept retrying to load the same file over and over in a loop. The problem could have been in one of the many lightwave plugins they were using to render at the time. (This was around 1999 or so, and I think I used tcpdump with a samba filter module, tracing it at the server) There are some debugging tools as well that will let you check out what the program is doing in the way of local file accesses on the render node, in case it's stuck on files loaded from the local drive. There used to be an 'strace for windows' that would show you all files being opened by the render in realtime. You'd just redirect the output of that tool to a file, wait for the render to hang, and then look at the end of the log to see what operating system calls it was hung on. Sometimes you'd find it's hung waiting for a license, sometimes a lock file.. anyway, useful if you're willing to pop up the floorboards.. To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe

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Response from Jeremy Lang @ Jan. 29, 2015, 6:30 p.m.
Thanks for the ideas!
I tried everything I could think of with the UI folder, the MaxStartUI files, and the UI folder withinen-US (where the MaxStart files were) and the 3 test machines still get stuck at the same point: 0: STDOUT: - 15:21:09.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
What user folder/files were you referring to? The stuff in the render user's appdata folder doesn't seem like much and\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax is empty already...

______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Joseph Boswell <joeboswell@gmail.com> wrote:
Had this happen before, pretty easy fix if the issue is the same, Max not starting on nodes was either a problem with a few files in the UI folder getting messed up, or something that got corrupted up in the user folder.
The user folder can just be deleted and when you log back in see if Max starts, the other one in the UI folder, I _THINK_ that folder gets recreated but I am not that sure, I believe you can just nuke the MaxStart* files and that should fix it.
J

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Thanks for the pointers!
Problem is definitely machine-related not scene. Unless some scene is managing to break only certain machines in a way that stays broken for all tasks across slave/machine restarts.
Example machine I'm looking at isDeadline Version: 6.2.1.47 R same as others.
Well, doesn't seem to be comms center, at least, no WSCommCntr4.exe running.
Yeah, probably need to open a ticket with Thinkbox, was hoping somebody in here had an easy solution at hand...

Also, I'd kill for a good way to see number of times a machine's been requed vs. number of frames finished (of each task type).

______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Mike Owen <mjnowen@gmail.com> wrote:
Typically in Max2014 this is caused by State Sets dialog being left open when you save/submit the scene file and you are running your farm as a service? OR it's the ADSK Comms Center (InfoCenter) process causing Max to hang whilst loading.
The first can be manually fixed by resetting State Sets in a scene file (please get in touch with Thinkbox support directly for further instructions/I know they have an infographic they can share with you on instructions on how to achieve this) or upgrading to Deadline v7.0.2.3 which contains automated fixes via SMTD at submission time (State Set data is stored in the max scene file).
The ADSK Comms Center is a complicated beast and under Deadline Monitor --> Configure Plugins --> 3dsmax --> switch the "ADSK Kill Comms Center" setting (scroll to the bottom of the dialog) to True. This will help, but the full solution was to actually re-implement this kill functionality at a different level and in more places, which took a huge amount of testing out in the field to achieve the winning configuration. Thanks to the studios (some are on this mailing list) in partnering with us to battle test this one! This 'final' automated solution will appear in Deadline v7.1 of which beta 1 will be released later this week on the Thinkbox beta forums. You can test if this is your issue by simply visiting a machine which has 'hung', open Task Manager and if"WSCommCntr4.exe" is running, try killing it and see if 3dsMax instantly becomes responsive again?
Add 3dsMax 2015 and you will have both these above issues and also the lovely ADSK "Scene Explorer" issue, which is another dialog that needs to be closed during submission and at render time. Deadline v6.1.2.50 & v7.0.x already contain an automated fix for this one.
Feel free to post a thread or create a private ticket on the official Thinkbox sites. Support links are here:http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/support-links/

Please do provide support with a few sample 3dsmax log reports as these contain a huge amount of debug information by default, which the guys can easily check for a number of other issues for you.


On 28 January 2015 at 02:50, Nick Allevato <nick.allevato@5thkind.com> wrote:
This sounds so familiar; it has been a while though.
Confirm MAX process is started and/or usage if applicable.
Also, see if it is a deadline update issue (meaning there is some state issue with Deadline / slave updating)
Not much concrete but I think I saw that in Deadline 5.X days.
-nick
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Deadline 6.2, 3dsMax 2014.
Machines go from rendering normally to getting stuck at "starting up" status.
Once they start doing that they never seem to render in Max successfully again. Does not seem to be Deadline or network related because they continue to render in other applications fine.
Looking at one right now, last message was:0: STDOUT: - 16:16:20.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
It doesn't matter that it'll be a couple machines out of dozens of identical ones, connected the same and imaged at the same time.
Anybody run into something like this, or have any ideas?
______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe



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Response from Joseph Boswell @ Jan. 29, 2015, 2:30 p.m.
Had this happen before, pretty easy fix if the issue is the same, Max not starting on nodes was either a problem with a few files in the UI folder getting messed up, or something that got corrupted up in the user folder.
The user folder can just be deleted and when you log back in see if Max starts, the other one in the UI folder, I _THINK_ that folder gets recreated but I am not that sure, I believe you can just nuke the MaxStart* files and that should fix it.
J
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Thanks for the pointers!
Problem is definitely machine-related not scene. Unless some scene is managing to break only certain machines in a way that stays broken for all tasks across slave/machine restarts.
Example machine I'm looking at isDeadline Version: 6.2.1.47 R same as others.
Well, doesn't seem to be comms center, at least, no WSCommCntr4.exe running.
Yeah, probably need to open a ticket with Thinkbox, was hoping somebody in here had an easy solution at hand...

Also, I'd kill for a good way to see number of times a machine's been requed vs. number of frames finished (of each task type).

______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Mike Owen <mjnowen@gmail.com> wrote:
Typically in Max2014 this is caused by State Sets dialog being left open when you save/submit the scene file and you are running your farm as a service? OR it's the ADSK Comms Center (InfoCenter) process causing Max to hang whilst loading.
The first can be manually fixed by resetting State Sets in a scene file (please get in touch with Thinkbox support directly for further instructions/I know they have an infographic they can share with you on instructions on how to achieve this) or upgrading to Deadline v7.0.2.3 which contains automated fixes via SMTD at submission time (State Set data is stored in the max scene file).
The ADSK Comms Center is a complicated beast and under Deadline Monitor --> Configure Plugins --> 3dsmax --> switch the "ADSK Kill Comms Center" setting (scroll to the bottom of the dialog) to True. This will help, but the full solution was to actually re-implement this kill functionality at a different level and in more places, which took a huge amount of testing out in the field to achieve the winning configuration. Thanks to the studios (some are on this mailing list) in partnering with us to battle test this one! This 'final' automated solution will appear in Deadline v7.1 of which beta 1 will be released later this week on the Thinkbox beta forums. You can test if this is your issue by simply visiting a machine which has 'hung', open Task Manager and if"WSCommCntr4.exe" is running, try killing it and see if 3dsMax instantly becomes responsive again?
Add 3dsMax 2015 and you will have both these above issues and also the lovely ADSK "Scene Explorer" issue, which is another dialog that needs to be closed during submission and at render time. Deadline v6.1.2.50 & v7.0.x already contain an automated fix for this one.
Feel free to post a thread or create a private ticket on the official Thinkbox sites. Support links are here:http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/support-links/

Please do provide support with a few sample 3dsmax log reports as these contain a huge amount of debug information by default, which the guys can easily check for a number of other issues for you.


On 28 January 2015 at 02:50, Nick Allevato <nick.allevato@5thkind.com> wrote:
This sounds so familiar; it has been a while though.
Confirm MAX process is started and/or usage if applicable.
Also, see if it is a deadline update issue (meaning there is some state issue with Deadline / slave updating)
Not much concrete but I think I saw that in Deadline 5.X days.
-nick
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Deadline 6.2, 3dsMax 2014.
Machines go from rendering normally to getting stuck at "starting up" status.
Once they start doing that they never seem to render in Max successfully again. Does not seem to be Deadline or network related because they continue to render in other applications fine.
Looking at one right now, last message was:0: STDOUT: - 16:16:20.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
It doesn't matter that it'll be a couple machines out of dozens of identical ones, connected the same and imaged at the same time.
Anybody run into something like this, or have any ideas?
______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe



--
Nicolas Allevato, Ops, 5th Kind


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Response from Jeremy Lang @ Jan. 28, 2015, 1:25 p.m.
Thanks for the pointers!
Problem is definitely machine-related not scene. Unless some scene is managing to break only certain machines in a way that stays broken for all tasks across slave/machine restarts.
Example machine I'm looking at isDeadline Version: 6.2.1.47 R same as others.
Well, doesn't seem to be comms center, at least, no WSCommCntr4.exe running.
Yeah, probably need to open a ticket with Thinkbox, was hoping somebody in here had an easy solution at hand...

Also, I'd kill for a good way to see number of times a machine's been requed vs. number of frames finished (of each task type).

______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Mike Owen <mjnowen@gmail.com> wrote:
Typically in Max2014 this is caused by State Sets dialog being left open when you save/submit the scene file and you are running your farm as a service? OR it's the ADSK Comms Center (InfoCenter) process causing Max to hang whilst loading.
The first can be manually fixed by resetting State Sets in a scene file (please get in touch with Thinkbox support directly for further instructions/I know they have an infographic they can share with you on instructions on how to achieve this) or upgrading to Deadline v7.0.2.3 which contains automated fixes via SMTD at submission time (State Set data is stored in the max scene file).
The ADSK Comms Center is a complicated beast and under Deadline Monitor --> Configure Plugins --> 3dsmax --> switch the "ADSK Kill Comms Center" setting (scroll to the bottom of the dialog) to True. This will help, but the full solution was to actually re-implement this kill functionality at a different level and in more places, which took a huge amount of testing out in the field to achieve the winning configuration. Thanks to the studios (some are on this mailing list) in partnering with us to battle test this one! This 'final' automated solution will appear in Deadline v7.1 of which beta 1 will be released later this week on the Thinkbox beta forums. You can test if this is your issue by simply visiting a machine which has 'hung', open Task Manager and if"WSCommCntr4.exe" is running, try killing it and see if 3dsMax instantly becomes responsive again?
Add 3dsMax 2015 and you will have both these above issues and also the lovely ADSK "Scene Explorer" issue, which is another dialog that needs to be closed during submission and at render time. Deadline v6.1.2.50 & v7.0.x already contain an automated fix for this one.
Feel free to post a thread or create a private ticket on the official Thinkbox sites. Support links are here:http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/support-links/

Please do provide support with a few sample 3dsmax log reports as these contain a huge amount of debug information by default, which the guys can easily check for a number of other issues for you.


On 28 January 2015 at 02:50, Nick Allevato <nick.allevato@5thkind.com> wrote:
This sounds so familiar; it has been a while though.
Confirm MAX process is started and/or usage if applicable.
Also, see if it is a deadline update issue (meaning there is some state issue with Deadline / slave updating)
Not much concrete but I think I saw that in Deadline 5.X days.
-nick
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Deadline 6.2, 3dsMax 2014.
Machines go from rendering normally to getting stuck at "starting up" status.
Once they start doing that they never seem to render in Max successfully again. Does not seem to be Deadline or network related because they continue to render in other applications fine.
Looking at one right now, last message was:0: STDOUT: - 16:16:20.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
It doesn't matter that it'll be a couple machines out of dozens of identical ones, connected the same and imaged at the same time.
Anybody run into something like this, or have any ideas?
______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe



--
Nicolas Allevato, Ops, 5th Kind


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Response from Anonymous @ Jan. 28, 2015, 4:10 a.m.
Typically in Max2014 this is caused by State Sets dialog being left open when you save/submit the scene file and you are running your farm as a service? OR it's the ADSK Comms Center (InfoCenter) process causing Max to hang whilst loading.
The first can be manually fixed by resetting State Sets in a scene file (please get in touch with Thinkbox support directly for further instructions/I know they have an infographic they can share with you on instructions on how to achieve this) or upgrading to Deadline v7.0.2.3 which contains automated fixes via SMTD at submission time (State Set data is stored in the max scene file).
The ADSK Comms Center is a complicated beast and under Deadline Monitor --> Configure Plugins --> 3dsmax --> switch the "ADSK Kill Comms Center" setting (scroll to the bottom of the dialog) to True. This will help, but the full solution was to actually re-implement this kill functionality at a different level and in more places, which took a huge amount of testing out in the field to achieve the winning configuration. Thanks to the studios (some are on this mailing list) in partnering with us to battle test this one! This 'final' automated solution will appear in Deadline v7.1 of which beta 1 will be released later this week on the Thinkbox beta forums. You can test if this is your issue by simply visiting a machine which has 'hung', open Task Manager and if"WSCommCntr4.exe" is running, try killing it and see if 3dsMax instantly becomes responsive again?
Add 3dsMax 2015 and you will have both these above issues and also the lovely ADSK "Scene Explorer" issue, which is another dialog that needs to be closed during submission and at render time. Deadline v6.1.2.50 & v7.0.x already contain an automated fix for this one.
Feel free to post a thread or create a private ticket on the official Thinkbox sites. Support links are here:http://www.thinkboxsoftware.com/support-links/

Please do provide support with a few sample 3dsmax log reports as these contain a huge amount of debug information by default, which the guys can easily check for a number of other issues for you.


On 28 January 2015 at 02:50, Nick Allevato <nick.allevato@5thkind.com> wrote:
This sounds so familiar; it has been a while though.
Confirm MAX process is started and/or usage if applicable.
Also, see if it is a deadline update issue (meaning there is some state issue with Deadline / slave updating)
Not much concrete but I think I saw that in Deadline 5.X days.
-nick
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Deadline 6.2, 3dsMax 2014.
Machines go from rendering normally to getting stuck at "starting up" status.
Once they start doing that they never seem to render in Max successfully again. Does not seem to be Deadline or network related because they continue to render in other applications fine.
Looking at one right now, last message was:0: STDOUT: - 16:16:20.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
It doesn't matter that it'll be a couple machines out of dozens of identical ones, connected the same and imaged at the same time.
Anybody run into something like this, or have any ideas?
______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe



--
Nicolas Allevato, Ops, 5th Kind


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Response from Bobby Jain @ Jan. 27, 2015, 9:10 p.m.
Have the artists used any new plugins?
Have you been able to render a simple sphere with CPU rendering with no plugins or anything else loaded in the scene?
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 7:27 PM, Jeremy Lang <jeremy.lang@it4vfx.com> wrote:
Deadline 6.2, 3dsMax 2014.
Machines go from rendering normally to getting stuck at "starting up" status.
Once they start doing that they never seem to render in Max successfully again. Does not seem to be Deadline or network related because they continue to render in other applications fine.
Looking at one right now, last message was:0: STDOUT: - 16:16:20.123 INFO: End registering loaded plugins
It doesn't matter that it'll be a couple machines out of dozens of identical ones, connected the same and imaged at the same time.
Anybody run into something like this, or have any ideas?
______________
Jeremy M. Lang
it4vfx

To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe


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